Vampires, comments welcome

[kai]

Vampire by kaifeiyu
Format: Type II - ZEN
MAIN DECK
4 Bloodghast
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Liliana Vess
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampire Nocturnus
Creatures [25]
1 Disfigure
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Mind Sludge
4 Sign in Blood
4 Tendrils of Corruption
Spells [11]
17 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Verdant Catacombs
Lands [24]
SIDEBOARD
3 Disfigure
4 Duress
4 Infest
4 Wretched Banquet
Sideboard [15]
Deck Total [60]


what does people thinks? I've been told multiple times that Liliana Vess would be too slow for this deck, but i find her useful for getting that top card black for Vampire Nocturnus. Plus it let's me save on multiples of Mind Sludgeto just 1. trying to find room for Disfigure but i've no idea what to cut so i can have quick removal.

thoughts on the deck?

[Lero]

In terms of suggestions you've made a good deck for casual and competive play it looks like fun with liliana, there are a few tweaks i would make to fit the current meta

the strongest vampire decks ive seen run infests mainboard, coz the only thing you really kill on ur side is gatekeeper's and thier job is kinda done once theyr in play, + if you have nocturnus out ur not gonna suffer, Id take out the eldrazi monument and hexmages into sideboard, four disgure i would say is a must or else 3 and a doom blade, maybe consider another mind sludge instead of liliana vess, the problem i have seen with vampires is eldrazi green and turbo fog coz they have no answers to thier echant/ artifact combo's by turn 5 you might enjoy destroying your oponents hand than searching for something, perhaps play one for fun, or sideboard a pair, In the evolving meta turbo fog has become quite strong and kind of a terrible matchup for vampires you might want to consider putting four maelstrom pulse and one forest in the sideboard, because this is a good answer for agro decks against decks like that.

also if you can afford it i would suggest 4 marsh flats and 4 verdant catacombs as it thins out your deck imensly aswell as make nocturnus and bloodghast that bit better, and you don't have ot worry about lifeloss with 11 sources of gain mainboard

don't forget sorin markov one or two of these add a versitle and diverse option for vampires and give you something at the top end of your curve

so i would make a deck like this

4 Bloodghast
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nocturnus
4 Vampire Nigthawk
3 Malakir Bloodwitch

1 Sorin Markov

4 Sign in Blood
3 Disfigure
1 Doom Blade
4 Tendril's of Corruption
3 Infest
2 Mind Sludge

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
15 Swamps

hope this helps

[shapeshifter]

Sorry alex I side with Kai on this one, I prefer the hexmages over infests.
My opponnent killing nocturnus in reponse to my own infest is just dreadful.

My advice would be to include just 4 B/G fetch land, 2 forest, 4 Maelstrom Pulse, this is a must in my opinion.

[Tzeentch]

I definitely agree on taking out the monument. Its a nice card, but there's a reason that Eldrazi Green is pretty much the only deck running it.

And honestly, if this is mono black, I'm kinda sketchy on running fetches & TE's. I know there's the arguement to be made for deck thinning, but statistically, its not a very significant enhancement. Say in a 60 card deck, you fetch turn 2 with no mulls, and you're on the draw. You've got 9 cards out of the deck. When you fetch, you get 1 more out, so there are 50 cards left. The odds of drawing specific card before the fetch is 1.96% if its singleton, 3.92 if its pair, and 7.84 if its a playset. The odss post fetch are 2%, 4% & 8% respectively. I just don't see a 0.04% (which is nothing like what I'd define as an immense boost. Far wanderings was a much better boost, because it got you to 7 land on turn 5. Paying a land to get a land just doesn't seem worth it in mono colour, or at least, not to my eye) boost as enough of a reason to either play a TE & get a land tapped or pay 1 life to get a one untapped, when I'd I'd have had exactly that anyway if I'd just run a swamp. In 2 & 3 colour decks, fine, you can pick the colour you need at the time, but in monocolour, its either a loss of tempo or loss of life for a fractional increase in the chance of drawing a card. I know each one ups it a little more than the last, but the empasis is on the word little. Is it really worth that much life & tempo to add maybe 1.5% to your draw chance? /end math rant.

So if I were building this deck, I'd keep it mono black, run it all swamps, maybe a pair of Crypt of Agadeem, but even thats a maybe. Pulse is good, but I'm not sure its enough on its own to justify a second colour.

As to the Hexmage vs Infest. I'd say the best way to answer that is to playtest it and see which works out more often. Also try a version with 2 of each to see if the middleground works best.

Finally, I'd definitely take Vess out. I know she seems good, because of the "tutor for nocturnus" thing, but odds on you're gonna get a black card most of the time. If you want a black walker, Sorin is better, but honestly, I'd rather just have another bloodwitch... but that's just me.

[Dave]

The fetches are to increase your chances of having a black card on top of library with Nocturnus, so they're definitely worth it.

Maelstrom Pulse is worth it in my opinion, plus there are sideboard cards to consider if you are in a second colour.

[Philc]

Interesting deck. Building a similar one myself. The deck is:

4 x Bloodghast
4 x Kalastria Highborn
4 x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 x Vampire Nighthawk
3 x Captivating Vampire (may temporarily use Vampire Nocturnus until they stop being Standard)
3 x Reassembling Skeleton

(22 creatures)

3 x Blightning
3 x Terminate
3 x Duress
3 x Urge to Feed
2 x Quest for the Gravelord
2 x Eldrazi Monument
2 x Maelstrom Pulse

(18 spells)

15 x Swamp
3 x Verdant Catacombs
1 x Forest
1 x Mountain

(20 lands)

Total: 60 cards

Hopefully the Bloodghast and Reassembling Skeleton should be pain free sacrifices for the Eldrazi Monuments. Kalastria Highborn and Quest for the Gravelord could also make it unpleasant for people when my creatures are sacrificed. Rather new to Magic, so tips would be appreciated.

Would quite like to squeeze in 2 x Anowon the Ruin Sage or Butcher of Malakir for the sacrifice ability but unsure what I could afford to lose. Also uncertain that 20 lands would be enough. If I abandoned Eldrazi Monument, that'd mean I wouldn't necessarily need the Reassembling Skeletons, so that'd free up 5 slots (2 x Anowon the Ruin Sage and 3 x Butcher of Malakir?) but I'd still only have 20 land.

[shapeshifter]

Hi PhilC, welcome to the forum (we met in store on saturday)

Everyone knows I try to play mono black evertime I see it viable competitively. The most recent black control deck I built for standard was a vampire deck with 8 World Wake manlands and cruel Cruel Ultimatum

But now with M11 there have been a few new cards that interest me. the first being Corrupt this card could be a great finisher for the vampire agro strategy that doubles as planeswalker removal (if only cruel ultimatum was damage). The second card is Sword of Vengeance this allows for some interesting interactions with some of the vampires, especially Vampire Nighthawk for a 4/3 creature with flying vigilance firststrike deathtouch haste trample and lifelink. also good on child of night and gatekeeper of malakir.

I like the start of your list 4 reassempling skeleton + 2 Eldrazi Monument intrigues me (maybe insert Grave Titan + monument here too ) aswell as 4 cultivating vampire + 4 Bloodghast. I probably wouldn't splash for blightning and Maelstrom Pulse, i would stick to one of them, probably the blightning for early card advantage, and a commitment to more discard in the sideboard could really turn your bad matchups around.

Lots of ideas... nothing concrete or built yet. Are there any problems with mono black that I am not aware of??

[Philc]

Thanks for the tips Shapeshifter. Played one casual game where my opponent transformed all my Swamps into another land type but if I'm mainly going to be playing Standard hopefully that shouldn't be as much of an issue(think it was quite an old card which was used to do that).

Would you advise sticking with the current mix of Bloodghasts and Reanimating Skeletons for sacrifices, or should I replace the Reanimating Skeletons with Pawns of Ulamog? The latter would be useful with Urge to Feed but mana wise it's one mana more to initally place them down.

Regarding sacrificing, if I have more than one benefit which I can gain by sacrificing a creature do I have to pick which one I receive or do I get them all? For example, I need to sacrifice a creature for the Eldrazi monument. I sacrifice an Eldrazi Spawn and I also have a Bloodthrone Vampire. Do I fulfil the monument's terms, gain 1 mana and get +2/+2 for my Bloodthrone Vampire for the one sacrifice or do I need to pick which thing that sacrifice is being used for?

[shapeshifter]

Originally Posted by Philc

Regarding sacrificing, if I have more than one benefit which I can gain by sacrificing a creature do I have to pick which one I receive or do I get them all? For example, I need to sacrifice a creature for the Eldrazi monument. I sacrifice an Eldrazi Spawn and I also have a Bloodthrone Vampire. Do I fulfil the monument's terms, gain 1 mana and get +2/+2 for my Bloodthrone Vampire for the one sacrifice or do I need to pick which thing that sacrifice is being used for?

Rules question yey... In short, you can only sacrifice a permanent to one effect. It is a frequently asked question. you may be thinking you just need to sacrifice a creature to keep the monumentin on the battlefield so i will sacrifice a creature to blood throne vampire. This is not true!! The monument demands a sacrifice to itself. In addition, if you have an eldrazi spawn and a bloodthrone vamp on the battlefield and decide to sacrifice the spawn, you can do so as the cost to either effect but not both. In short, you can only sacrifice a permanent to one effect.

As for the deck, 4 reassembling skeletons seem like a must. they are hard to keep off the table, work around counter magic, and feed your eldrazi monument. spawn of ulamog sounds interesting but competes at three mana with captivating vampire, vampire nighthawk, gatekeepr of malakir, Sword of Vengeance, and your possible blightning.

Here is a suggestion list:

4 Bloodghast
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Reassembling Skeleton
3 Terminate
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir/Bloodhusk Ritualist
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Sword of Vengeance
4 Blightning
4 Vampire Nocturnus
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Eldrazi Monument
2 Grave Titan